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Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
0
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Posted - 2012.12.14 16:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been playing EVE for a while, mostly mining. I have decided to start a new life as an Industrialist. I'm blogging my experience. I'd love some feedback and tips on being a better Industrial player.
www.wulfbrothers.blogspot.com |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
0
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Posted - 2012.12.15 06:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Special thanks to everyone who read and/or commented today!
A new post is up!
www.wulfbrothers.blogspot.com |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
0
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Posted - 2012.12.17 03:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
New post up today:
www.wulfbrothers.blogspot.com
Still getting my feet wet in this profession. I still appreciate tips and pointers. Thanks to everyone who's been reading! |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
0
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Posted - 2012.12.18 00:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thanks everyone, for reading! I genuinely appreciate all the comments on what I'm doing so far.
I've taken Economics, so I completely understand the idea of opportunity cost. I understand why I need to value my TIME. However, I still don't understand why people are so against calling minerals "free." If they don't cost me anything, then, yes I could be shorting myself the price of just selling the minerals, but I also am doing what I want, which is to manufacture products to sell on the market. The minerals, then, are free, in that they don't have an ISK cost attached to them when I mine myself.
If I'm going to do that, I need to include all mining costs on my calculations at the end of the month (lasers, etc), but the minerals are still free as it relates to setting up the cost of my products.
Just my two cents. I like the idea of buying minerals better than I like the idea of mining them. However, I spend a lot of time searching for the best price, which means flying around the region to get all the mats I need, which, in turn takes up a lot of my time. There's an opportunity cost here, as well. If I were mining just what I need, it wouldn't take me very long (much less time than flying all over Tash-Murkon) and it wouldn't cost me any ISK to do it. I could even sell the extra materials and make a profit.
This is, naturally, an unsustainable business model, because it won't work once I'm making more and more things, but it surely works for now for the level of manufacturing that I'm doing.
Just a few of my thoughts pertaining to what seems to be a constant debate in these parts.
Again, thanks everyone for reading and for your feedback. It's surely appreciated! |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
0
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Posted - 2012.12.18 00:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
I've posted a brief update. I'll probably post a much more substantial update tonight or tomorrow.
www.wulfbrothers.blogspot.com |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
0
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Posted - 2012.12.18 14:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Termy Rockling wrote:Well since you mine "for the corp" the corp makes isk with "free" minerals. But if you count the minerals free, you are actually generating most of your profits from the mining, and not actually manufacturing, your "manufacturing division" is just adding a bit of value to your "mining divisions" work.
Isn't a simple fix here to set up a pay structure for the corp? Especially since it's mainly just me doing all the work, if I set up an actual salary system, then I'm no longer working for free for the corp, it's merely "part of the job."
Now, for me, the issue is that I don't want to be doing this if/when I start manufacturing larger jobs that require tons more materials. Mining for all that is the pits. However, mining for the Nocxium that 2,000 drones will need takes me about 6 minutes, not to mention I can also get the Mexallon in those 6 minutes and I don't have to take a single cent out of my wallet. They aren't "free," by any means. I paid for the Mackinaw. I paid for the Modulated Strip Miner II's. I paid for the Kernite Crystals. And, of course, I pay with my time. But those are all old purchases, and my time... Quite frankly, I don't have a problem mining. Because I can even sell the excess materials I mined and make a little bit of ISK, as well as have procured all the minerals I needed for the manufacturing project. It's a win-win for me, personally.
I'm going to keep working on the thought process here. But, when I figure in material cost on materials that I mined, I'm going to continue to use "0." Because it represents a true ISK cost of what I'm making, even if it doesn't represent the time cost. |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
1
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Posted - 2012.12.18 17:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
celebro wrote:Interesting thread, you got the spirit to play the game and do something your way. There is nothing wrong with that. As long as you realize you might be losing isk from manufacturing.
You could be earning more just selling the minerals!
The bolded statement is the underlying issue we're all having here. It's abundantly clear that there are times when I could make more by just selling the minerals. But, if I play the market appropriately, then that doesn't always need to be the case.
For example, I could have bought Nocxium this morning for 757 each. I could have mined the Nocxium and sold it for 752 in my local trade hub. I had already decided to mine my Ore Hold full this morning (On my Mackinaw). I chose to mine Pyrox instead of Kernite. However, instead of selling the Nocxium I got for 752 then buying more at 757 from someone else (at least 6 jumps away, mind you), I chose to keep the 2000 units I needed and sold the rest. It makes sense in my head. What's the value of that Nocxium to me? 5 ISK each, for a total of 10,000. Because that was the difference in price. By mining it myself, I saved myself 10,000 ISK. (But I also made more than that, because I sold the rest of the Nocxium, as well as all the Mexallon, Tritanium and Pyerite.)
It took me some time, but I was going to be mining anyway. I took a small hit, financially because I didn't mine Kernite, and mined Pyrox instead, but in the end, it feels like a win.
---
Also, as Celebro says, I may lose ISK from manufacturing. But, I'm okay with that, I'm a RPer at heart, and I want to run a manufacturing corp, not a mining corp. Today, I feel like I'll be coming out ahead. At any rate, I appreciate the debate. It's making me think about the entire thing.
I definitely don't fall into the Minerals I Mine Are Free category, because I know they aren't free. They just didn't cost me any ISK to buy. Is there a price I could set on them if I were selling them? Absolutely. But, I never mined them with the intention of selling them. I mined them with the intention of using them. So, no cost directly to me, just potential ISK lost because I could've sold them directly.
It really feels like a potato-potahto type situation.
Please continue reading. I'm taking all this feedback to heart, Beckie's point was VERY well received, if I can sell it for more than I can buy it, I should sell it. That's the route I'm going down 99% of the time.
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Now, I have a question for the group, do you set your prices based on YOUR cost or based on where the market is? I am currently attempting to set my prices where they are both profitable and movable. There is a place where those two lines cross, I'm certain, and I'm trying to hit it. I'm not lowering my prices because I'm not calculating minerals into some of the equations, I'm using the market to dictate my prices (too low and they move quickly, but not much profit; too high and the profit is greater, but they don't move as quickly). |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
1
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Posted - 2012.12.19 00:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote: It also helps because at some point you will never be able to mine enough to keep up with your production.
That's been the one hangup I've had with the whole idea, is that at some point I won't mine anymore. This strategy is only effective right now, while I'm making small amounts of things. |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
1
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Posted - 2012.12.19 05:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
I've posted a lengthy update this evening for your consumption. I've appreciated all the feedback, and you Industrialists are winning the argument, so don't say internet arguments can't be won!
www.wulfbrothers.blogspot.com
I look forward to more feedback tonight. |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
2
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Posted - 2012.12.21 04:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tomorrow, the three batches of goods I have been working on will come off the line. Hopefully, this explains the lack of updates on the blog for today and yesterday.
We'll be back tomorrow! |
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Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
2
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Posted - 2012.12.23 17:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Greetings, capsuleers.
There's a new post over at www.wulfbrothers.blogspot.com
I'd appreciate if you read it and let me know what you think! |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
2
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Posted - 2012.12.24 04:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
The Planetary Interaction post I promised is UP!
www.wulfbrothers.blogspot.com
Thanks for reading! |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
14
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Posted - 2012.12.25 15:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pyus wrote:Like a lot of us, you're not always playing solely for the ISK, and you're enjoying the RP side of the game etc.. That perspective and play style is very healthy and good for long-term success and happiness in this game I think. "Success" as an industrialist can be rather subjective in this respect.
Where things get sticky with this perspective however is when looking for advice on forums, comparing notes, or bragging to others about recent exploits in chat, etc.. In these situations objectivity rules, and we need to describe activities with more detail and accuracy in order for them to be meaningful. This is where the Opportunity Cost must always be accounted for to some reasonable degree of precision (no need to get too crazy tracking costs).
When talking about the profitability of any manufacturing activities with others, you really must account for the cost of materials that went into the product, regardless of how you came by the materials. Whether you mined them yourself with the intention of just having fun out under the virtual stars while watching a movie, or Santa gave them to you, they're cost must be accounted for in some objective fashion when discussing profitability with others.
Very glad you are enjoying EVE and I think your blog is great and helpful to others.
Thanks for the kind words regarding the blog!
You guys are definitely making your point heard. =) |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
14
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Posted - 2012.12.25 21:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
PI: I can safely say 'ur doin it rong'.
Of COURSE selling to buy orders is making a loss due to taxes and materials. Either stick it up on sell orders, or make PoS fuel blocks with the stuff.
I've done the maths. I know that, with my PI setup, my BPOs, and buying basic materials and ice products off the market, I can make a profit with PoS fuel blocks, and get a quick sale with little market games. Even just buying the components for the stuff off sell orders, I get a profit margin. I don't get what you're doing wrong. Maybe you're just using the wrong system?
Mind you, I got a bunch of help with my fuel block setup. The BPOs were a CCP gift, circumstances in lowsec mean a relatively low tax rate with little risk, and someone in my alliance swapped their researched BPOs for my fresh ones for a decent price.
I am ABSOLUTELY certain that you are right about me doing it wrong. This is one of those things that I'm going to work on in depth at some point in the future, but I haven't taken a lot of time with it right now.
It also highlights one of the aspects of this blog and that is from someone who doesn't know anything to (hopefully) someone who has some good advice on industrial life in the future.
Thanks for the comments! =) |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
14
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Posted - 2012.12.25 23:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
I do use Excel spreadsheets. However, so far, I'm just kicking it old school with a journal =) |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
15
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Posted - 2012.12.29 05:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
You've all been fantastic readers and commenters. Thanks for all the feedback so far.
There's a new update on the blog. As always, feel free to comment here or there. I read them all!
www.wulfbrothers.blogspot.com
-KW |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
19
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Posted - 2012.12.31 22:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Happy New Year Capsuleers!!
Today, December 2012 is officially drawing to a close. I closed the books a couple of minutes ago and wrote up a report for this month.
You can find the report at www.wulfbrothers.blogspot.com
Thanks everyone for reading, commenting and thrashing me for believing that Minerals I Mine are Free. You've been great for the first month. I appreciate the support!
See ya in 2013! |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
19
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Posted - 2013.01.03 04:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Good evening, Capsuleers!
There's a new post over at wulfbrothers.blogspot.com detailing the first days of an Industrialist and some steps you can take to expand and enhance your profitability. Check it out, leave comments there so that new players can see the discussion on that post for all of eternity, or until my blog is destroyed by the Minmatar (who absolutely hate me, although I can't figure out why).
I also added a small contest to the post for those of you with super sharp eyesight and the gift of finding things. It's not a huge prize, but it's a prize none-the-less!
Go check out www.wulfbrothers.blogspot.com
Big thanks to Sidrat Flush for all the support both here, on the blog itself and through EVEMail. Make sure you check out EIO, it represents a lot of work from Mr. Flush!
Fly Safe, my friends!! |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
19
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Posted - 2013.01.04 18:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Happy Friday everyone! There's a new post at:
www.wulfbrothers.blogspot.com
Thanks for reading! |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
19
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Posted - 2013.01.04 20:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
On marketing: They're not buying from the other guy's order because they think you're a jerk; they're doing it because the other guy has more stuff up, and they want to save clicks. At least, that's what I do when buying off sell orders in bulk.
Also, train up trade skills! Tax reduction is a thing.
Ah yes, good point. I didn't think of that =)
When I was a noob, I always clicked on the "normal" priced link because I didn't like that they were trying to undercut the competition so shamelessly. Now I understand it's just a game mechanic. =) |
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Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
20
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Posted - 2013.01.09 19:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Not sure if you missed me or not, but I'm back! Been a weird week, everything should be resettled now.
There's an update of what's going on at
www.wulfbrothers.blogspot.com
---
If you have any advice, let me know. |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
20
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Posted - 2013.01.10 20:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
I did a little market research. Here are the results!
http://wulfbrothers.blogspot.com/2013/01/market-research.html
Fly safe! |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
21
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Posted - 2013.01.14 05:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
A manufacturing update, sort of!
Thanks for reading!
www.wulfbrothers.blogspot.com |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
21
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Posted - 2013.01.15 05:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Toku-
I keep going back and forth, the details are my favorite part, and are easy ideas for content. There will definitely be monthly reports that are pretty crunchy.
As with everything, I think perspective is the name of the game. I'm going to keep watching how things go, and may loosen back up on the blog. I just don't want to detail every move I make if people in my region are going to A) Copy what I'm doing or B) drastically flood/underprice the market.
I'm doing my best to just be honest and real with what's going on in my manufacturing world; this is just another example of how things are going, I suppose.
Thanks for reading! |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
21
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Posted - 2013.01.19 05:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
This is what happens when the market gets flooded!
www.wulfbrothers.blogspot.com
Thanks for reading! |

Kiger Wulf
Wulf Brother Insustries
22
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Posted - 2013.01.22 14:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hello Capsuleers!
I've been rather transparent with my blogging endeavor, so if you've been following, you know that I have been having some difficulties in figuring out what to continue posting. So, I'm going to open it up:
Do you have any ideas?
Do you have any questions?
Is there anything you'd like to see explained out further?
Let me know in this thread! |
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